they were a way to direct opposition and energies into a non-violent controllable channel. that's how they were treated. that's not the case anymore. now they are outlawed. gunned down in the streets. tens of thousands of them have been jailed. and so that peaceful non-violent channel has been eliminated. >> rose: i assume radicalizing the moderates among them. >> that's a good question. i think it's too soon to tell. the actual members, the dues paying members who attend meetings and have really dug deeply in the ideology they're not likely to take autopsy arms. that's a small number of the people who voted for president morsi. when you're talking about radicalizing, i think you're talking about younger people who might have been attracted to the muslim brotherhood but maybe not become fully involved and who might now be attracted instead to these newer and more militant groups, which is really carrying the flag of militant insurgency in egypt right now. >> rose: what's their objective. >> they grew up, they were formed in the sinai initially with the aim of making trouble